Category: InterviewCategory: Interview

Kate Ellen and I (mostly Kate!) wrote ‘Ghosting Spotify: A How-To Guide‘ which got people talking.

We laid out why she pulled her music from Spotify: the streams weren’t translating into real support, and the platform made it almost impossible to build direct relationships with listeners.

We talked about how Spotify keeps people inside its walls, as listeners don’t click through to emails, don’t buy vinyl, don’t follow links. The listening numbers might look cool on paper, but they rarely lead to anything that pays the bills or creates momentum. Leaving forced Katie to focus on places where people actually show up, like Bandcamp, her website, and her email list.

Once she made that shift, she started seeing repeat buyers and more meaningful conversations. We dug into how owning the audience gives you room to experiment — releasing small projects, selling limited runs, offering commissions — instead of hoping a playlist bump solves everything.

The takeaway wasn’t “streaming is evil,” but that depending on Spotify (or social media!) as the center of your work keeps you stuck waiting for something that rarely materializes.

Sarah Fay and I focused on how people are using Substack right now, especially the temptation to treat Notes like another social feed to optimize and post constantly.

We talked about slowing that reflex down and prioritizing email subscribers instead—saving strong ideas for newsletters, reposting things from Notes into emails so subscribers actually see them, and measuring success by retention rather than public subscriber counts. The emphasis was on engagement, keeping people on the list, and treating email as the primary channel rather than chasing visibility inside Substack itself. 

We also covered practical approaches to writing, video, and business models on Substack. That included writing in a way that feels natural, publishing without waiting for perfection, and getting comfortable sending work to small groups before larger audiences.

On the business side, we talked about proximity, like keeping most work public while charging for closer access through Zoom calls or live discussions, and using Substack as a tool that supports existing goals rather than becoming another platform to manage. We also discussed live video formats, replays, YouTube workarounds, and treating Substack as a professional practice without overcomplicating the model. 

Mario’s been shipping The Morning Shakeout every Tuesday for almost a decade, and the through-line is simple: doing the work every week is the “trick. It’s not hacks, not social reach, not “growth systems.”

We talked about how having your own website isn’t optional if you want staying power, how platforms come and go but archives and backlinks keep paying dividends, and why consistency beats trying to manufacture viral hits.

Mario’s approach is boring in the best way: show up, write, publish, repeat, and do it long enough that people can’t ignore you, and long enough that you actually figure out what you’re here to say.

I sat down with Tim Bailey to talk about his “31 pieces in 31 days” experiment, and how making things regularly helps you notice patterns in your thinking instead of waiting for one “big” idea that never comes.

We also got into the tension between wanting an audience but doing it with grace, as in sharing what feels true right now, keep your sanity, and ignoring the algorithm.

So much of our conversation came back to making work you can live with, and letting the rest take the time it needs.

Had a great time talking with Claire Venus via Substack Live. We covered a lot in this hour long chat! Substack’s platform features and distractions:

We talk about the increasing features on Substack, like Notes and video, which creates an “attention economy,” which is often times what we’re trying to avoid!

The value of an Email List: Direct access to your audience is so important, and very much worth the time and energy.

Monetization and payments: The challenge in asking for payment, and exploring options like “Buy Me a Coffee” buttons instead of paid subscriptions.

Connecting beyond vanity metrics: We talked about building genuine connections with readers and other writers through personal outreach, and small gatherings, and how that can be more valuable than viral hits or ranking on arbitrary leaderboards.

Tenacity in reaching readers: Not all subscribers see every post or email, so it’s necessary to employ “creative bothering” (thanks Cody Cook-Parrott) and talk about your offering more than once to make sure your message reaches your audience.