Category: InterviewCategory: Interview

I recently did a Substack live with Elin Petronella, an independent artist based in Paris who’s been building a creative business on her own terms for the last ten years.

She’s got half a million followers across Instagram, YouTube, and Pinterest, and she’ll be the first to tell you that’s not even the point, as she recently walked away from monetizing on Substack, dropped her bestseller badge, and has been focusing on something more sustainable ever since.

“I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t retain ownership this whole time. All the links are always going back to my own site,” Elin Petronella

All those followers across all those social media platforms is great and all, but if you’re not pointing them to something that’s more permanent, or if you’re not giving curious fans something to explore, you’re leaving money on the table.

As Elin explains, she has 200K followers on Instagram, and a single post might still only get 3,000 views. But if you can get just 1% of 3,000 click to your website, that’s still 30 people.

“How are you doing it before you had the idea that you wanted to monetize it? What are you already doing when people are not watching? What is your natural way of creating before you start thinking about eyes watching it or monetizing it? Double down on that,” Elin Petronella

When we start paying attention to how other people are doing things and assuming that that’s the way to do it, that’s where we can get in trouble. Trust your gut. Get back to the things that you enjoyed when you started making the work that you’re making.

This my third conversation with Max Pete, and we talk about the difference between having an audience and building an actual community, the slow grind of consistent output versus going viral, and why honest and real beats polished on social right now – and actually how the most best thing you can do on any platform isn’t broadcast, but connect people to each other.

“One of the coolest things about having an audience is bridging the gap between so-and-so and someone else. Being like, oh, someone’s looking for someone — I know that person. I can connect them together. That is the coolest thing.”

If you’re looking for help with building a regular outreach habit or just need a pep talk about charging what you’re worth, this is a good one to watch.

I spoke with Cody Cook-Parrott ahead of the release of their new book, The Practice of Attention. We also talked about the messy and imperfect journey we’re all trying to figure out, too. Buckle up.

Cody deleted Instagram, and they also left Substack for Buttondown, returned briefly, then left again and lost their paid subscribers in the process.

“I felt a little flippant, almost. Like, oh, I can just build it back. And it’s like, it took me four years to build that many paid subscribers. It wasn’t like it just happened one day. And so I’ve been really thinking about how precious it is to have — I would like to think I would never delete my email list as a whole. I see people making quick decisions without really realizing how it might affect their self-employment landscape.”

We talked about social media, of course, but arrived in a new place.

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Had a great conversation with photographer Noah Kalina today, about a variety of creative subjects.

We talked about his recent love for building websites to host his creative work.

“I use Claude code, but it has just been like this giant unlock for my creativity — and mostly in service of it. It’s like all of these pictures that just do not feel like they have a home anymore on the internet.

Of all of the sites we’ve been through — for me, it’s 25 years on the internet — I’m no stranger to seeing sites come and go and moving on or whatever. But now it really just feels like it’s all scattered and blown up.

There is no real one place anymore. But what does feel good is your place, your website. For me, it’s noahkalina.com, and then I’m making subdomains off of that.”

On the withering away of social media, and the return to personal sites:

“With the destruction of like social media as we know it, or at least the change in it, I think there’s nothing better now than feeling like, oh, let’s full circle back to our personal websites and like make them interesting

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On today’s Substack Live Mel Mitchell-Jackson and I talked about internet platform burnout, leaving stable jobs to pursue creative work, social media’s failure to convert to actual sales, the importance of building trust, and why it’s so hard to make art when also trying to please the algorithms.

Mel on dashboards, and playing the numbers game:

“These stats dashboards just want you to be working harder, faster, all the time and they don’t think about your well being. And that is horrible for a creative person because then you lose your own sacred space to make your work.”

On getting views on platforms, but not much sales:

“I was promoting the program on both YouTube and TikTok. And in the promotion on TikTok, I was posting every day. Sometimes three times a day… I was spending a full time job, like 36 hours a week on TikTok in order to promote this thing. And then when I looked at my like backend website stats, I learned that none of my traffic or sales for this were brought by TikTok. I was just spinning my wheels.”

Oh, and Mel talks about a video they made about one of their paintings, and it got 500,000 views on TikTok, but didn’t lead to one sale.