Category: InterviewCategory: Interview

This week SOCIAL MEDIA ESCAPE CLUB speaks with artist, musician, and video editor Joan Pope about her weekly email newsletter Week in Review.

Pope’s creative output is epic, and as she explains how a trusty email newsletter keeps her fans in the loop with everything she’s creating on a weekly basis.

How long have you been doing a newsletter, and what sort of reaction or feedback have you gotten from it?

I started the Substack newsletter in January 2021. Its the email version of the blog posts I have on my website. I started doing the “Week in Review” compilation posts in 2017. I still do those posts on my website, but driving traffic to my website is probably harder than to deliver the newsletter right into people’s inboxes.

Why did you pick Substack for your email list, rather than something like Mailchimp?

I went with Substack because its sort of a newsletter-blog hybrid. The monetization feature is great, too.

How long does it take you to put together and send your weekly newsletter? And you do additional posts for paying subscribers, yes? What would you say the total time investment each week?

It takes me about an hour to compile everything for the newsletter.

At this point, I don’t really have any posts behind the paywall besides access to one of my poetry books. I really hate having to put my content behind a paywall, I want to be able to share it with everyone and I know not everyone can afford to pay for access. “Exclusive” content isn’t really my thing.

My approach has been this: pretty much everything is available to anyone, and if you have the means, and you like my work, you can choose to support it by paying for the subscription. Or just enjoy it for free. I leave it up to the fans to decide.

Why even have an email newsletter in 2021?

The fast pace of social media makes it pretty easy for stuff we actually like to get lost in the mix.

I have a pretty intense level of output, I can barely keep track of my own work, I can’t expect other people to be able to keep up, too. So the weekly compilation of all my creative works helps me reflect on my own work each week and it keeps my audience in the loop. It seems like people like it. A lot of people will tell me that they can’t keep up and the newsletter helps them do that.

I haven’t noticed any “subscribe to my email list” type posts on your socials – how do you grow your list? Or is that something that just happens organically from your All My Links page and Bandcamp?

It’s true that I hardly ever make posts like that. I have a link to the signup in my allmylinks link-list thing. I let people find it on their own. However, I usually do at least post the published Substack newsletter on my main Twitter account each week. I usually end up getting a few subscribers each week as new people discover my Twitter account.

So how do we as writers, artists, bands.. how do we stay motivated at one or two sign ups a week?

It might not seem like much, but signups do start to accumulate, and when they do, they start to grow exponentially.

Patience is key.

It’s important to remember that 10 genuine fans who subscribe to your newsletter, follow you on social media, etc.. are much better than 1,000 bots signing up for your newsletter. Bots don’t buy your albums, they dont come to your shows, they don’t care at all about whatever you are doing.

Cultivate the audience you have, regardless of the size.

I try to dissuade people from just shouting “hey, join my newsletter” messaging, which is why I appreciate how you put it on your Substack page: “This email newsletter documents my worship.”

How important is to you to present your work in such a way vs. the standard marketing speak?

I don’t exactly have the vocabulary to frame what I do in the typical marketing terms. However, the social-sharing aspect is as important to my work as the work itself.

I consider every art piece, song, video, etc to be truly complete once I’ve given it to the world. So, getting it out there is all part of the devotion I have to my creative works.

I guess my work is intriguing enough that it makes people want to dig deeper, they end up finding the newsletter, my bandcamp, my website, etc. I get a lot of people comparing this experience following a breadcrumb trail. Its not my style to do too much outright explicit promotion, I have a more subtle approach.

I want to close by saying that growing an audience is really hard work, and for most people, it will take a lot of time and effort to see results. It’s really unlikely that you will amass a huge email list or social media following overnight. However, if you are consistent and keep working at your craft, you will eventually succeed.

It took me over a decade to get to where I am, and the reality is, I’m still a virtually unknown artist. But I keep doing what I do, and I’m not going to stop. If you are just starting out, don’t get discouraged if it doesn’t go the way you hoped on the first day. Set attainable goals, and commit to following through.

What are some of those goals we can set as we’re just starting out, trying to move some of our fans from social media to an email newsletter?

You just have to be realistic, and put in the work to get the word out. I am grateful to have a decent social media following, its made getting subscribers to the newsletter much easier.

I’m pretty passive in my approach… I just post a link on twitter to each week’s newsletter. My way is probably not the best way to get results. If I was going to do it “right” I’d probably add a call to action, asking people to subscribe.

This week we welcome Professor Pizza of Axeslasher, a thrash-tastic band from Denver, Colorado that leans heavy into horror, gore, and other delicious death-metal themes.

But we’re not talking about any of that. Oh no, we’re talking about email marketing! Social media! Bandcamp!

Yes, we’re talking about how the heavy metal sausage gets made on the internet here in 2021, which helps get people to come to your shows, to buy your shirts, and listen to your new music. This is what you signed up for!

Oh, you’re reading this on the web, and you’re not signed up? Subscribe today so you don’t miss out on the next email I send out!

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You told me a bit ago, “I’ve been testing every avenue we’ve used for the last 10 years. Guess which one generates the most traffic and revenue,” with the answer being email. Can you speak a bit to how much WORK goes into email campaigns?

I’d start by saying we’re not particularly adept at email marketing. I always kind of considered it old-fashioned but knew we should be doing some form of it. Axeslasher rode the wave of social media really well until recently. Back in the days of chronological sorting we were able to find an audience quickly, especially on Instagram. I’m a super visual person and focusing on creating killer images really appealed to me, and when it was actually getting shown to our audience we caught lots of traction. 

Additionally, we were able to really take advantage of paid marketing1 on social media to increase our reach. There was a time where I could consistently count on a 2:1 return on marketing dollars spent to revenue made. 

But, that’s not the case any more.

Algorithmic sorting and the sheer amount of people paying for ads now has caused that reliability to plummet. Creating on those platforms feels an awful lot like working for Facebook and not myself. The mental math equation went from “What do I think our fans would like?” to “What do I think will break through the algo that our fans will tolerate?”

“The short answer is you have to start looking at and leveraging trends, which by-in-large, are fucking lame.”

We’re a thrash band comprised of ghosts of vengeance. We shouldn’t be doing funny hand dances, or the running man.

All that pre-amble is leading somewhere, I promise.

In regards to how much effort it takes to create an email campaign, I’d say it’s slightly more. I’m not a great writer so it takes me a little longer to craft longer-form messaging to make a marketing email worth reading. However, the whole time I’m doing that, I’m back to thinking “what will our fans like?” Which is exactly the head space I want to be in. 

How long have you been managing an email list, and how do you get new people onto your email list in this digital and social media age?

We’ve been tepidly maintaining an email list since 2012. I say tepidly because we’ve really only been sending three to six emails a year. However, over time, that list has grown to about 1,200 subscribers. It’s not the world’s biggest list, but the way we’ve built it has made it extremely valuable and effective. 

The main source of email subscriptions is through online sales. On Bandcamp and merch.axeslasher.com folks who buy our merch have the option to opt-in to our email list.

The key here is that they’ve already shown major interest in the band by putting their hard-earned dollars into the equation. By opting-in at purchase, the audience on that list is much more engaged and more likely to be interested in things we do in the future.  

I got your recent October Horror Marathon email on October 1st. The last email was from July 31st. Is there any set schedule you stick to with these things?

Nope, and I feel like that’s something we need to be better at. Until recently I’ve always looked at email as an additional boost for announcements. New merch, new music, festival appearances. Things like that. 

Lastly, you use Mailchimp, which I recommend to a lot of folks. Do you have any one little secret tip or “hack” you picked up over the years with using it?

I love Mailchimp. The UX of creating, sending, and measuring campaigns is top-notch.

If I had one hack, it’d be to connect it to your online store6. You can start to see things like how much sales revenue your campaigns generate, as well as let you segment your list by amount spent. You can basically make a segment of your folks who are most invested, literally, and hit them with special offers or poll their opinion on what merch to make next. They’re the ones spending their own money on your dream — give them what they want!

Hello, SOCIAL MEDIA ESCAPE CLUB folks!

This is the first official “email newsletter” from your pal Seth, and it’s an interview with Jeff Gretz who plays drums in Zao, along with From Autumn to Ashes, and a million other projects (including the killer ZOMBI and Friends). 

This interview supports the purpose of SOCIAL MEDIA ESCAPE CLUB: to learn how folks in music and the arts are using email marketing to connect directly with their fans – let’s go!

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You joined Zao before Twitter existed, right? 2005?

Yeah, 2005. Pre-Twitter. Even Facebook and YouTube were still off the grid, at least for bands. That was the Myspace era.

I remember having REALLY big arguments with a lot of people surrounding the band at the time, and with other bands, about not letting go of an actual website. My argument was, “if this MySpace thing goes down we lose all contact and are starting from scratch.”

Then Zao went dark for a bit when MySpace actually went down, and wiped everything out. By the time we came back everything had shifted and we were playing catch up, and still are to an extent.

Back to the original question about Twitter; we still struggle with that one. Just don’t have the time or energy to devote to those algorithms. Can’t tell if it makes a difference for a band like us or not. 

How long have you been working the online marketing side of things for the band?

Pretty immediately after joining. It was a case of one, seeing it needed to be done and in an involved way, ie the band itself, not some marketing team answering messages and questions, and two, nobody else in the band really wanting to do it or having the time. The job has stuck with me to this day. I really don’t mind, though.

You don’t have to disclose exact numbers of course, but how do socials perform vs email? Sales, clicks, “engagement,” etc. again, totally fine to be general about this.

They all feed into each other. We don’t worry so much about the click counts or the engagement. We do find that the more we engage – even if it’s with trolls – that it all helps beef up everything. 

I think people tend to pay a bit more attention because of the engagement from the band.  Email list is good for the real diehards, especially when it comes to new releases and big announcements like shows. But I feel like the social thing helps people find out we are still active in the first place, which then feeds back into stuff like them being on the email list.

How do you grow your email list? I know there’s a subscribe box on the website. Anything else beyond that?

I would say probably 95% of our email list has come from people that have bought things through bandcamp. Every time someone buys something that email gets added into “the list.” And honestly, that has worked out tremendously.

We have never really farmed email addresses at shows. People will sign up in that scenario as almost a, “oh I guess I should support,” but the turnover is too big.

When you are sourcing from people that go out of their way to purchase something from the band, that is already a prime person to have on your list. These are people that go out of their way to support bands in a direct way and want to buy shirts, records, CDs. They are also more likely to go out of their way to got to a show. 

You use Mailchimp for the Zao email list, right? Do you have any tips or tricks for using that for people who might just be starting an email list?

I don’t remember why I picked Mailchimp in particular, but it does the job. The nice thing about Mailchimp is you can see how many people open the email, how many people click on links, what links they click on. 

I am constantly tweaking how the emails go out, and what the setup is based on which links are being clicked. 

Subject lines are huge too. You want them to feel the need to open it, so too much info sometimes can be bad. Keep it just vague enough that they need to see what is up. 

Also don’t hit people too much. If you swamp them with emails too often you become an annoyance and they unsubscribe. 

How often do you send out emails?

When there is something to say, honestly. There is no schedule. And there are times where I will lay off if it’s something that isn’t time sensitive, but I know there is another thing around the corner. 

I would rather have an email with two or three big things in it, as opposed to hitting them with three separate emails. Maybe the people aren’t in the region you happen to be playing a show in, but they will click because they see “tour dates,” and while they are in there they think, “oh crap they aren’t coming to me, but oh look, I missed this album that came out last month, I will grab that.”

How’d the release of your most recent album ‘The Crimson Corridor‘ go?

It was pretty great. The first pressing of vinyl was almost immediately sold out, and we had a dead zone almost where there wasn’t any left, I literally had to tell distributors, “I don’t have anymore to send you for now.” The CDs even moved. It was a good feeling especially since we didn’t know if anyone even would buy a record after the past year and a half of uncertainty.

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PARTING THOUGHTS:

💰 Having the emails of people who have bought your album in the past is very important, so make sure your fans know they can buy music via Bandcamp, and not just stream it on Spotify. Give your biggest fans the chance to support you.

⏰ As far as frequency, Zao can get away with not sending too often – that’s an honor. But online stores can send like eight emails a week! I totally believe you can send something once a week, so long as it’s more than just “hey, pre-order our vinyl.” Use your existing photos and captions from social media and put that into your email newsletters – not all your fans are on every social media network, and even if they are, because of algorithms they probably didn’t see it anyways.

💀 Someday Twitter and Facebook and Instagram will be dead. Heck, MySpace was the #1 music site on the entire internet back in 2006, and AOL Music was #1 in 2008 – neither are a blip on the radar today. So make sure you’re building your email list today, while you can still reach some of your audience on social media!